RPG Discussion Thread
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Mai Valentine
Moderator
Personally, I don't find this to be true. Out of all game genres, rpg is the one that interests me the most. ^_^
I'm not a big fan of random encounters, to be sure, but usually the battle system makes up for it.
I'm not a big fan of random encounters, to be sure, but usually the battle system makes up for it.
Dart said:
agreed... and i agree with everyone who posted above me... though the genre is getting a bit stagnant in certain parts other franchises are evolving.
also Dart always reminds me of my very first Jrpg ^^ Legend of dragoon.. one of my favorites
I don't know how to respond to the question guys how do you say no in crazy. Because you would have to be clinicaly insane to even consider this question even as a joke.
GamingMaiden
This is my favorite forum on the Citadel.
QFT.x2 said:Same here! For the most part, traditional Japanese RPG's are my favorite, but I've grown very fond of Western RPG's over the past few years such as Morrowind, Oblivion, KOTOR, etc., Definitely my favorite genre, for sure. I guess what I love about them is, like Aleeock said, you get so much game for your money {typically 100 hours at the least}, and, I also really enjoy the mental strategy that goes into playing them. Sure, there are times when RPG's can be "slow" or a bit too story heavy, but I rarely ever find them boring
Love RPGs.
stealth toilet
Moderator
It's about to rain all over this parade... :lol
I've never really understood what was fun about playing traditional, turn-based, RPG games (particularly the JRPG). Even as I watch sneak peaks for the new FFXIII, I can't help but think of how amazing the game would be if Square's artists and graphic designers teamed up with a development studio that has experience making games in the "action" genre. However, this is not the case, an watching cut scenes for the game simply leave me with thought "Look at all the fun stuff you'll never get to do in the game." As it stands, the player is forced to sit back passively and watch (via cutscenes or the turn based battle system) their characters have all the fun. The interaction the player has with the characters, and by extension the world, is restricted to data spreadsheets, inventory management, and tech/level up trees. Essentially, the only thing the player controls in the game is all the tedious busy work that should be automated, while the benefits of all that tedium are merely displayed on-screen by an automated battle system. It's the equivalent of playing a game of monopoly where the social element of negotiating deals and forming/breaking alliances with other players is done by a computer and you're left counting phony money, physically moving thimbles, and handing out chance cards. Its absurd, or at the very least, an acquired taste.
It also raises the issue of "grinding," which is again something I've never understood as being fun. To me, gaining experience in a game should never be the point of playing the game, and if it is then it should be fun in and of itself. The reason why grinding is such an arduous chore is because the interactions the player has with enemies is minimal, tedious, and unsatisfying, for all the reasons mentioned above, so when a player's focus becomes gaining levels for gaining level's sake they experience the genre for its tedium. This is something that is particular to the RPG genre, as in other genres there is no need to reward the player via experience points for performing monotonous tasks over and over. Rather, other genres make the tasks themselves fun, performing them produces enjoyment, they do not require some arbitrary number adage to create this effect. The fact that something such as "grinding" can exist at all within the genre speaks to its failings.
In times past such machinations as turn-based battle systems, random encounters, and tedious party/character management, may have been necessary because of limited technology. In the present there is no excuse for these clandestine and archaic conventions. It would be like using a password save system for the sake of using it, when the truth is simply that a better way exists.
I've never really understood what was fun about playing traditional, turn-based, RPG games (particularly the JRPG). Even as I watch sneak peaks for the new FFXIII, I can't help but think of how amazing the game would be if Square's artists and graphic designers teamed up with a development studio that has experience making games in the "action" genre. However, this is not the case, an watching cut scenes for the game simply leave me with thought "Look at all the fun stuff you'll never get to do in the game." As it stands, the player is forced to sit back passively and watch (via cutscenes or the turn based battle system) their characters have all the fun. The interaction the player has with the characters, and by extension the world, is restricted to data spreadsheets, inventory management, and tech/level up trees. Essentially, the only thing the player controls in the game is all the tedious busy work that should be automated, while the benefits of all that tedium are merely displayed on-screen by an automated battle system. It's the equivalent of playing a game of monopoly where the social element of negotiating deals and forming/breaking alliances with other players is done by a computer and you're left counting phony money, physically moving thimbles, and handing out chance cards. Its absurd, or at the very least, an acquired taste.
It also raises the issue of "grinding," which is again something I've never understood as being fun. To me, gaining experience in a game should never be the point of playing the game, and if it is then it should be fun in and of itself. The reason why grinding is such an arduous chore is because the interactions the player has with enemies is minimal, tedious, and unsatisfying, for all the reasons mentioned above, so when a player's focus becomes gaining levels for gaining level's sake they experience the genre for its tedium. This is something that is particular to the RPG genre, as in other genres there is no need to reward the player via experience points for performing monotonous tasks over and over. Rather, other genres make the tasks themselves fun, performing them produces enjoyment, they do not require some arbitrary number adage to create this effect. The fact that something such as "grinding" can exist at all within the genre speaks to its failings.
In times past such machinations as turn-based battle systems, random encounters, and tedious party/character management, may have been necessary because of limited technology. In the present there is no excuse for these clandestine and archaic conventions. It would be like using a password save system for the sake of using it, when the truth is simply that a better way exists.
Meh, nobody rained on my parade, I love RPG's. Always have, always will, and nobody else's opinion on what should or shouldn't fun will change that. Obviously, if I sit and play a game for 100+ hours I find it fun. If I found it tedious I wouldn't play it for even 20 hours. It's really just that simple
1. Final fantasy XIII will be real-time but with limited commands i believe
2. while what you say is true... people who enjoy the genre (or at least i think) don't think that its tedious to do turn-based and all that because there is strategy involved.... there's also a bunch of micro-managing to make your characters stronger, and that's what i like about JRPGs i can feel that my characters become stronger and that my strategies increase as i level up and obtain more skills... that's why grinding can be so rewarding for some games.. is like playing a FPS for hours and hours beating the same kind of people and then going up a rank, it's satisfying for some isn't it?
3. i don't think all those elements of RPGs were introduced because of lack of technology... i think since many people enjoyed those elements and play the adventures that way, RPG developers decided to stick with turn-based and always add something here and there to make their games unique.
4. there is no way you can rain over the RPG parade XD
I lived in a country where RPGs where always the least popular genre (because most RPGs where in english) so i am used to getting the comments of "how can you have fun with a game with no action?" there is action in it but its not the type of action other people would understand or like.
2. while what you say is true... people who enjoy the genre (or at least i think) don't think that its tedious to do turn-based and all that because there is strategy involved.... there's also a bunch of micro-managing to make your characters stronger, and that's what i like about JRPGs i can feel that my characters become stronger and that my strategies increase as i level up and obtain more skills... that's why grinding can be so rewarding for some games.. is like playing a FPS for hours and hours beating the same kind of people and then going up a rank, it's satisfying for some isn't it?
3. i don't think all those elements of RPGs were introduced because of lack of technology... i think since many people enjoyed those elements and play the adventures that way, RPG developers decided to stick with turn-based and always add something here and there to make their games unique.
4. there is no way you can rain over the RPG parade XD
I lived in a country where RPGs where always the least popular genre (because most RPGs where in english) so i am used to getting the comments of "how can you have fun with a game with no action?" there is action in it but its not the type of action other people would understand or like.
Mai Valentine
Moderator
Leveling up in a rpg is way more satisfying for me than gaining a higher rank in a fps. ^_^
.... emm i don't know with what else to compare leveling up with though XDSame here Mai.Mai Valentine said:
Also I don't maybe it's just me but the RPG characters typicialy seem to have alot more personality and depth than the typicial FPS characters.
MegaDrive20XX
Segatron Genesis... call me the wizard.
Mai Valentine said:
*slow tear*....I want my Halo sister back...
I kid I kid :lol You have a point! It is more satisfying ^_^
Starrynite
Yes
stealth toilet said:
Whoa there are several games in which I just sit back and level grind all day. If the creators did a good job of incorporating it into you not only strenghtening the character but gaining new skills in the process then it is a dual edge sword. Ultimately in the case in which each skill looks and is more powerful than the previous, then sure, I will spend multiple hours just sitting there raising levels. FF has been the only game in which I found it to be a chore, but upon replaying FFXII, I found it to be useful but just not as satisfying as per say, Disgaea or Pokemon. Golden Sun is one in particular in which you gotta do it so you an see the ultimate level skills, that was also a very fun part to that one.
You have the same opinion as my roommates, they think grinding is so boring. I found it to be fun, it definitely beats, replaying a same stage over and over again because of a cheap death by en enemy or an obscured ledge in which you need split second timing to cross the gap (ie old Crash Bandicoots!!!)
I got to say I love to grind and also it's a great fun way to kill time too. By kill time I mean if I'm going to be playing a half hour or so with alot of other types of games I won't even bother messing with them.
Mai Valentine
Moderator
Level grinding in FFX was a lot of fun, though. I remember going to the Omega Ruins and leveling up like crazy.
FFX is still one of the only rpgs I have personally played in which you can switch members out during battle.
Most rpgs still don't allow that. I wish more rpgs did.
My favorite battle system is from Eternal Sonata. Unfortunately the rest of the game wasn't as good.
The last Tales game, Vesperia, added a lot of interesting elements, like the Fatal Strike (I think that's what it's called). I haven't decided whether it's my favorite Tales battle system yet, though. Abyss was also pretty good in that aspect.
Pokemon and the earlier Final Fantasy games (III comes to mind) are really the only games where I try to avoid level-grinding if possible, because I find it boring.
FFX is still one of the only rpgs I have personally played in which you can switch members out during battle.
Most rpgs still don't allow that. I wish more rpgs did.
My favorite battle system is from Eternal Sonata. Unfortunately the rest of the game wasn't as good.
The last Tales game, Vesperia, added a lot of interesting elements, like the Fatal Strike (I think that's what it's called). I haven't decided whether it's my favorite Tales battle system yet, though. Abyss was also pretty good in that aspect.
Pokemon and the earlier Final Fantasy games (III comes to mind) are really the only games where I try to avoid level-grinding if possible, because I find it boring.
Well the worse rpg I have played was Magna Carta: Tears of Blood hands down and it was because of the battle system when you have hit a time 3-key combo to do even basic attack it gets old quick and grinding seemed like it was going to be such a chore I didn't even bother to try. Which something I usualy love do especialy now days since the game designers alot times put some effort into making fun experience I'm guessing it's because so many RPG fans like it.
Starrynite
Yes
I remember one place that I love to grind was I think the Mars Lighthouse in Golden Sun The Lost Age, the Fire Bird's were way to powerful but gave like the highest EXP in the game. It was a challenge to beat them but defeating like 4-8 of them could raise a character a full level. And it was ridiculous looking when you used either Shine or Spark Plasma to electricute them!